Monthly Archives: May 2009
Here’s a New Spin on an Old Debate
Rey, who also goes by Beowulf2k8, has been challenging me on how free our free wills really are. Being Reformed, I hold that God can and does influence our free wills for good and for ill. Rey believes that if God influences us in that way, that we are not truly guilty of committing sin.
Let’s back a step up and look at this from a different perspective. John Piper, still thoroughly Reformed, has a different take here. Piper wonders, “Does God lead us into temptation?”
Piper feels that God guides our every step (Prv 20:24). The same Scripture that asks God not to lead us into temptation (Mt 6:13) also says that God doesn’t tempt us (Jms 1:13). He wouldn’t, but he doesn’t have to. As it turns out, every step we take is a temptation to do wrong. God leads us through temptations (cf. Mt 4:1), but he doesn’t tempt us.
Each temptation that God leads us through is an opportunity to glorify him by doing the Christian thing: not yielding to the temptation. Don’t pray for a life free of temptations. That’s unrealistic. Pray instead that you won’t yield to the temptations that will come your way.
No More Mr. Nice Guy
Rey says:
So, Calvinism teaches that God is the author and finisher of evil, thus making sin no longer sin but transforming it into obedience, and hence Calvinism is the most supremely evil position a person can take in theology.
How many times do I have to respond to this? Read my last post again. Better yet, have someone read it to you. Loudly and slowly. Until it sinks in. Look up any unfamiliar words. Try not to drool on the dictionary that you use for that.
The Westminster Confession of Faith, emphasis my own:
God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.
Read the Scriptural proof of the last point: “nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.” The verses cited are as follows (KJV instead of my beloved ESV):
- Acts 2:23: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.
- Matthew 17:12: But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
- Acts 4:27-28: For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
- John 19:11: Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
- Proverbs 16:33: The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the Lord.
Despite the fact that God foreordains all that will come to pass, he is not the author of sin. I don’t see how that can be made any more plain.
According to you, Cory, “What Calvinism does teach is that God has an eternal decree, from the beginning of time, that everything that would happen does happen.” So, your position is really not that man is the author of evil while God merely allows it to go on, but that God decreed each and every instance of evil that has ever happened to happen. You know that you are saying that God is the author and finisher of evil. BUT you also that saying such a thing is evil and blasphemous. Therefore, you try to say it without people realizing it, hoping that you can both convince people that God is the author and finisher of evil and yet also convince them that this isn’t what you are really saying, all at the same time. That is classic Calvinism, “God’s the author of evil, but you didn’t hear it from me, wink wink.”
What a load of crap! You have so failed to deal with the gradations of “foreordain” that your reply is of no value. As any idiot with a tenth-grade reading level can comprehend, I am saying that God allows evil as a negative decree and not as a positive one. Negatively allowing something falls well within the parameters of “foreordaining” the same, without making God the author of said event.
Your real argument is: “I don’t understand how God can decree every event on planet earth from the beginning and still expect us to accept blame for sin, so God has no eternal decree.” Then, you punctuate that argument with “neener neener!” and a raspberry. Next you’ll be asking me to pull your finger.
Amusing…
No matter how many times I say it, Rey keeps repeating the same error over and over again. So I have decided to write a post that keeps everything pure and simple, so that I (hopefully) won’t have to say this again.
Calvinism does not teach that sovereignty is the same as micromanagement. Calvinism does not teach that God is a Hollywood screenwriter who has written a screenplay that becomes life as we know it. Calvinism does not teach any of that stuff! Yet Rey continues to repeat these same errors over and over again.
What Calvinism does teach is that God has an eternal decree, from the beginning of time, that everything that would happen does happen. This can be either positive or negative, or some shade between.
If this decree is positive, it means that God declares what is going to happen, he purposes it and does it.
If the decree is negative, it means that God allows something to happen. Orthodox Calvinism views evil this way: it isn’t something that God positively does, it is something that he negatively allows for his own unsearchable purpose.
Hyper-Calvinism, on the other hand, does view evil as something that God creates in the life of the sinner. I’m no hyper-Calvinist.
There are many gradations in the action of foreordaining. It can be a positive thing that God purposes and does, or it can be a negative thing that God allows. It may also fall in-between the two extremes in a way that we don’t understand this side of eternity. God either purposefully does something, or purposefully allows something to happen. Either way, he is foreordaining it in a sense, and not micromanaging every detail.
So, please, Rey, stop repeating the error that I’m teaching that God micromanages everything. In fact, I have explicitly written against it in this latest series of posts sparring with you.
Is Free Will Subject to God’s Sovereignty?
Rey, otherwise known as Beowulf2k8, has leveled more criticism my way. He has two posts, here and here, that criticize my own Reformed view of the Bible. The second was meant as pure sarcasm, and as such I will not be addressing it. The first one I will address after I clarify a few things.
First, Rey did not adequately respond to Genesis 50:20. He said that Joseph was not an oracle of God, so therefore it represents his erroneous opinion of what God is doing in his life. I countered with the fact that Joseph was an oracle of God, evidenced by the fact that he interpreted dreams, and therefore his opinion in this matter would carry some weight. This statement of God meaning someone’s free will evil for the good of all is inconvenient to Rey’s position that God doesn’t influence human free will.
Second, Rey did not respond to the litany of verses that show God does influence human free will. Among others that can be cited, I specifically cited the following verses (emphasis mine):
- Exodus 4:21: And the LORD said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do before Pharaoh all the miracles that I have put in your power. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.”
- Joshua 11:20: For it was the LORD’s doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be devoted to destruction and should receive no mercy but be destroyed, just as the LORD commanded Moses.
- Isaiah 63:17: O LORD, why do you make us wander from your ways
and harden our heart, so that we fear you not? Return for the sake of your servants, the tribes of your heritage. - Romans 9:18: So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
Third, Rey does not contend with the litany of verses cited in favor of God making the decision for Christ for us (emphasis mine):
- John 1:9-13: The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of a human decision nor of the will of man, but of God.
- 1Pet. 1:3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
- John 6:44: “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
- John 6:61-65: Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.”
- Acts 2:45-47: And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.
- Acts 16:13-14: And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to the riverside, where we supposed there was a place of prayer, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had come together. One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.
Fourth, Rey does nothing with my philosophical discourse on God’s foreordination. Rey merely continues to perpetuate the error that Calvinism teaches that God reduces human beings to puppets. He does this with no evidence from any Calvinist document that allegedly teaches this.
Who Has the Higher View of God?
The age-old problem is that if God has an eternal decree, then how is it possible that man has a free will? And yet both are taught in Scripture, so it must be the case that this is somehow true. Rey, also calling himself Beowulf2k8, makes light of this whole issue in a response to a video theologian John Calvin did for me here.
What Rey reveals is a low view of Scripture and a low view of God’s sovereignty. I know that Rey has a low view of Scripture based on this post, in which he claims that the Bible contains a contradiction. Instead of resolving it, Rey gives more weight to James because James wasn’t an adulterer or a murderer (as David quite clearly was). That’s the easy way out. The more difficult way out is to try to figure out what the proper way to understand both texts together would be.
John Calvin Discusses Rey’s Errors
Rey, otherwise known as Beowulf2k8, is back on my blog again with more commentary designed to convince us that Calvinism is of the devil. Well, I found out that John Calvin himself is doing YouTube videos, and approached the great theologian to find out if he would do a special video discussing Rey’s errors with compatibilism. Wouldn’t you know, he agreed, and has said that he’ll do a video anytime I need him!
Here’s the first video:
Back Rome Again 