I’m glad you’ve relaxed on this my friend. It’s like I said in my message to you. PZ Myers has every right in his free will to do what he did. And of course the wafer was taken out of context anyway… and it is just a wafer no matter what. It holds no power. Besides, you and I both know Catholic doctrine is seriously flawed… perhaps that’s why they were so offended ;). If I were to crunch the little cracker or dump the little cup of grape juice during my communion it wouldn’t mean anything… although my pastor might wonder what came over me LOL. The point is that the wafer is symbolic of Christ’s ordeal on the cross. Although the whole transubstantiation thing is kinda gross…
PZ Myers proved nothing accept where he stands. Oh well. I don’t see why anybody is so shocked. Let him be, you’ve got bigger fish to fry… like those RRS folks.
By the way my friend, I plan on backing you up here more often. I feel God pushing me to support you here. LOL I wish I was more awake right now cuz you know I’ve got A LOT to say hehehe. God bless…

As the Lord leads me, Rook. Really I’m more into supporting current Christians in sound doctrine… apologetics is not my bag at this point…

“neither cast ye your pearls before swine…”

Besides, I find the debates between RRS and Christians to be largely worldy and intellectual anyway. It is very tough to convince the flesh of the spirit, especially when the flesh doesn’t want to hear it.

In all of my studies, and believe me I’ve spent countless sleepless hours trying to disprove God, I’ve found that I can no more prove Him in the worldly sense than anybody else can disprove Him. He is a mystery. But I see Him in everything, at work in everything, and I know His presence. To those who choose not to receive Him, He is foolishness.

Just know Rook, even though you don’t believe it, that God is using you for His purposes as well.

in Christ,
Caleb Ian

It means the pearls of wisdom of course that are in the bible (this you know), and just as you rejected it, the swine will not see it for what it is, other than slop. So in that regard, YES, I am likening you to swine.

And since when should I care so much about tolerance? Obviously God is not tolerant of much either.

And obviously you were NOT a God-fearing Christian, or you would NOT have rejected His word. I used to be a God-hating atheist… just ask Cory.

You simply choose not to believe it because you want to live for yourself. You want to find every loophole there is so that you can feel comfortable living in rebellion to God.

And sincerely, I think it’s good that you give to charity and love and all of that. But of course that does not make you favorable in God’s eyes, only mens’ eyes.

So, while you’re out wasting your time trying to explain everything without God, I’ll waste my time as a Berean, studying scripture to test the spirits, and pointing out the following:

“…no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.” Ecclesiastes 3:11

“O Timothy, keep that which is commitetted to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith…” 1 Timothy 6:20,21

All I know is that following His word works. Living for myself doesn’t. Not in the long run anyway. And I don’t care if I don’t understand everything under the sun, as much as my flesh may desire that knowledge.

I really hope you come back to God, Rook, no doubt God would mold you into something amazing if you did. You know I’ll be praying 😉

in Christ,
Caleb Ian

It means the pearls of wisdom of course that are in the bible (this you know), and just as you rejected it, the swine will not see it for what it is, other than slop. So in that regard, YES, I am likening you to swine.

So then tolerance and turning the other cheek is only as good as when the person believes in God?

And since when should I care so much about tolerance? Obviously God is not tolerant of much either.

Well at least you know your God is not omnibenevolent. It is a shame that I have more moral fortitude than your God.

And obviously you were NOT a God-fearing Christian, or you would NOT have rejected His word. I used to be a God-hating atheist… just ask Cory.

I don’t care whether you delude yourself to believe this or not. I was a God fearing Christian. The difference between you and me is I reasoned through things instead of deluding myself. I came to the conclusion that any God that the Bible says is omnibenevolent, yet burns people for all eternity, can not be perfect because it is already inherently contradictory.

You simply choose not to believe it because you want to live for yourself.

Now you’re being dishonest by assuming my position and my intent. I lack belief in God because there is no evidence for his existence. I just told you that above. Do not sunder my will because you have so corrupted yours with false ideals and blind faith.

You want to find every loophole there is so that you can feel comfortable living in rebellion to God.

I don’t have to find every loophole. So far in this conversation it is you who have used loopholes, like this one, in an attempt to dissuade yourself from believing that a person can live their whole life without the belief in God. I’m sure to you, such a notion is impossible. So you have to continue to invent reasons for why such a thing would happen, and here you are. You are doing nothing more than lying to yourself and you’re not impressing me.

And sincerely, I think it’s good that you give to charity and love and all of that. But of course that does not make you favorable in God’s eyes, only mens’ eyes.

I could care less about both. (a) I don’t believe in any God or Goddess and (2) I give to charity because I want to benefit society in the long run, for a generation which doesn’t exist yet far in the future when suffering has been alleviated by science and medicine, not medieval belief and ancient dogma. Nobody will know who I am then, nor should they. If you asked the average man on the street who discovered Penicillin and antiseptics, they wouldn’t know the answer. I doubt you even do. Yet without them we would not be where we are today as a society.

So, while you’re out wasting your time trying to explain everything without God,

Why would you think it is a waste of time? Is this another attempt by you to lie to yourself about where I am in life? Saying things a million times will not make those things any more true in reality – only in your own mind.

I’ll waste my time as a Berean, studying scripture to test the spirits, and pointing out the following:

“…no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.” Ecclesiastes 3:11

Sounds to me like somebody making an excuse for lack of evidence of God’s existence. Although, I know from a historical perspective it is probably in relation to the exiled Jews, far from home, and no land to call their own. Feeling alone from God, as if he had abandoned them. This is obviously a verse which may have provided comfort to them. Although a beautiful verse, it doesn’t make it any more true.

“O Timothy, keep that which is commitetted to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith…” 1 Timothy 6:20,21

Yet you have profaned my name in this post by assuming intent and likening me to swine. You are not following your own books examples.

All I know is that following His word works.

Do you dash children against the walls? Do you stone disobedient children? Do you think it right that through his word two she-bears came out and mauled children to death for calling Elijah bald? Do you think it acceptable that a man is to marry the woman he rapes if discovered? What about the rape victims perspective? Following his word leads to bad decisions and I highly doubt you really follow everything the Bible orders you to do. If you did, you’d be in prison. The fact that you don’t follow every law and statute tells me that you see no value in those laws, and recognize them as folly and immoral laws. This also tells me that you live by a different moral code than the one laid out in His Word. Stop deluding yourself. I know you’re smarter than that.

Living for myself doesn’t.

But you already do if you reject even a handful of laws in the Bible. And don’t forget, Jesus said that one is not to abandon the old law, the 613 statutes in the Old Testament, and if anybody does or promotes such behavior they are in danger of hellfire!

Not in the long run anyway.

What you mean is you’re too afraid to Hell to think for yourself. You’re a living example of the sort of Christian terrorism that parents unknowingly teach their children. You were instilled fear of hell by this society, and have since been at gunpoint by what you think is God to never question his sovereignty. That is terrorism, sugarcoated with the word “free will”. There can never be freedom of choice if you are constantly told that eternal damnation awaits you if you choose what God doesn’t want you to choose.

And I don’t care if I don’t understand everything under the sun, as much as my flesh may desire that knowledge.

I appreciate the metaphorical language here. But you don’t have to understand everything under the sun to know that your God is a terrorist who is both intolerant and immoral, if such a God were to even exists.

I really hope you come back to God, Rook, no doubt God would mold you into something amazing if you did. You know I’ll be praying 😉

You can pray in one hand and…well…you know the rest. Which one will be filled first? (Hint: If you think prayer works, try hitting the submit comment button with only prayer – or, try the scientifically tested process of clicking the button. I promise you the fastest way will not be prayer. But give it a try for yourself! Remember, Jesus said you can move mountains with prayer so clicking a button with faith should be easy.)

Hoping you start thinking more rationally,

Rook

Antipelagian,

That is an interesting question. My answer will obviously not be the same as yours. I could say empirical, observable information would only suffice for me. If God was real, and was all knowing, he certainly would know just what it would take to convince me of his existence. If he didn’t want me to burn for all eternity (perhaps he should have just not created me in the first place, being all knowing and whatnot – but that is for another discussion perhaps) a perfect and omnibenevolent God at that would have no problem showing himself to me. After all, Jesus had no trouble showing his wounds to Thomas and the other disciples. Where are his wounds for me to see and touch? Why can’t everyone get this same experience so nobody doubts and everyone is saved? This to me is a little crooked, especially when Christians will claim that it is precisely that blind faith that saves – without realizing that blind faith also kills and maims and injures. I highly doubt most Christians would be willing to accept things on blind faith in other aspects of their lives (aside from religiously). Would a Christian use faith to start a car? Turn on the stove? Accept that a promiscuous lover is faithful? Believe a formerly guilty man of his innocence without any investigation? I doubt it. They would use scientifically tested, physical actions to do such things or investigate certain events. This is called compartmentalization. I hope that answers your question and then some. I have no problems elaborating.

Well. You’ve got me all figured out. Guess I’ve been rebuked. I guess I have no choice but to quit believing in God. LOL

By the way Antipelagian… you are right about the communion. I stand corrected.

And as for you Rook, what is your basis for morals? Where do your morals come from if no God tells you what the deal is? You just make them up as you go along?

And I have doubted God. I have tried to rationalize Him away. It simply doesn’t, and won’t work for me. God is far from being a terrorist. He warns us. He tells us what He expects of us. If we choose not to be obedient, then shame on us. His ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts. As far as I’m concerned, who am I to test Him that created me? Satan already tried that, and look at the mess we’re in. So trying to put him in the tiny box of our human thoughts and rational is pointless. It doesn’t matter what we think He should be.

Wow, I’m still trying to get over you comparing your morals to God’s morals.

in Christ,
Caleb Ian

Well. You’ve got me all figured out. Guess I’ve been rebuked. I guess I have no choice but to quit believing in God. LOL

You’re pretty cocky for a Christian who is supposed to be humble. Especially for somebody who has yet to make a valid point.

And as for you Rook, what is your basis for morals? Where do your morals come from if no God tells you what the deal is? You just make them up as you go along?

Is this an attempt at a clever dodge to avoid answering my point mentioned above? I’ll play your game, but I expect you give me an some form of acknowledgment. No, I do not make them up as I go along. I get my morals from several places, probably from the same places you get yours (as we have already determined you do not get them from the Bible): (1) My parents, (2) Evolutionary development, (3) Society through the same process (societal evolution), (4) Government, (5) My own reasonable conclusions based on how situations present themselves, finalized by my overall experience on this planet. If you need any of these clarified, I am more than happy to. So far, my reasons are better than any reason you could give outside of them. (Grace, determinism, faith, fear of hell, promise of reward in Heaven, because you think the BIble tells you too – all of which are morally depraved reasons for doing good)

I would ask you another question; What is it you think you can do as a Christian that I can’t do as an atheist?

And I have doubted God. I have tried to rationalize Him away.

So you’ve tried deluding yourself out of your delusion? No wonder you’re all messed up with your beliefs.

It simply doesn’t, and won’t work for me.

Maybe because you’re being irrational about the whole process? You don’t “rationalize away” a non-evidenced thing. You don’t “rationalize away” the easter bunny, do you? What about all the millions of other Gods in existence–probably half of which are still worshiped in one form or another, many which predate Christianity and Judaism? Do you “rationalize away” these Gods or do you simply not believe in them because they lack evidence?

God is far from being a terrorist. He warns us. He tells us what He expects of us.

And if you don’t listen he throws you into a pit of hell for all eternity. How is that any different than a Muslim extremist holding a gun up to your head, telling you if you don’t do exactly as he says he’ll pull the trigger. You still have a choice there too – you can deny the Muslim and die or do what he says and live. God is no different.

If we choose not to be obedient, then shame on us.

You’re not showing me how God is not a terrorist. What you’re doing here is qualifying what sort of person you are. You are telling me you are a slave. So in essence, you’re a slave to a terrorist who has a gun to your head.

His ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts.

So he didn’t create us with his same pattern (Genesis 1)? He didn’t create us to be from the same cloth?

As far as I’m concerned, who am I to test Him that created me?

A human being. You’re a person. Who were the african americans to question their white slave owners? Who were the Roman slaves to question their masters? Every slave deserves the right to not be slaves anymore. Either that, or your God once again fails to me more moral than I am. I would never be so arrogant as to believe that a child of mine has to do everything I say, to the letter – the child is an individual too. I don’t always know what is best for him/her. She/he may one day realize that what I want for them isn’t always going to be good for them. Why do you think children eventually become adults and move out of their parents’ house? In your rusty world of fallacious logic, every child would be under lock and key, with a gun to their heads, doing exactly what the parent orders them to do. If they don’t, they were warned…BANG!

Satan already tried that, and look at the mess we’re in.

So it is Satan’s fault for us being human? Or is it man’s fault? Get your conclusions right before you contradict yourself next time.

So trying to put him in the tiny box of our human thoughts and rational is pointless.

I don’t know what is more shameful about your reply here; the fact that you have no respect for human life or the fact that you have no hope for mankind. This religion has so poisoned your mind that you just don’t care about your own species. Sickening.

It doesn’t matter what we think He should be.

You have made a lot of baseless claims here, you haven’t even proved he exists yet!

Wow, I’m still trying to get over you comparing your morals to God’s morals.

Yeah, its a shame that I have a better moral standard than your God does. I don’t kill people out of spite, and if I did, you’d call me a murderer. But when God does it – its “his way.” How pathetic are you when you have to justify murder?

Oh and in regards to why does God not make it obvious of His existence… simple… because if He made it blatantly clear to everybody, then we wouldn’t have free will anymore would we?

According to your faith we already do not have free will. You are a robot to a God that doesn’t exist. But let’s pretend he does… Answer me these questions:

(1) Is God all knowing?

(2) Is God all powerful?

(3) Is God all loving?

When you answer theses questions we’ll continue with this dialog. Bring a little less attitude next time. I’m not the deluded one here – I’m trying to save you from looking so foolish.

But see the big difference here Rook is that you base God on what YOU think he should be. And you’re not accepting of a God that doesn’t work the way YOU would like Him to work. You uphold man’s standards, and think them better than God’s.

Are you really this deluded? Fine, I dare you to go live one day under God’s standards. Go kill gays, kill anybody who works on the sabbath. Kill disobedient children. Anybody wear polyester-cotton blends? DEATH to the INFIDEL! Don’t be clueless – there is nothing moral or just about God’s judgments or his laws. You know this just as well as I do because you don’t follow them all. If you did, you would be found guilty of more crimes than some of the toughest serial killers. You are just dodging this fact by pretending to know something unknowable (God is above our standards). How can you even be sure? Once more, we’re supposedly cut from the same cloth (Genesis). God gives us laws (kill innocent women and children) and you would not say that is immoral? You’re a psycho if that is the case and should do the world a favor and lock yourself away.

And to be completely honest, I don’t have all the education in the stuff you do, so it is hard for me to debate in your manner. I haven’t spent years doing what you do. All I can go by is the experiences in my life. I’ve tried it. It works.

Oh I certainly agree that life experience teaches us things key to our survival. That has absolutely nothing to do with God.

God created me. I accept that. That’s MY truth, and as far as I’m concerned, THE truth.

That is just silly. A sperm and an egg created you when conception occurred in your mothers womb. Your mother and father “created” (conceived) you. No God Necessary.

I WANT there to be an all powerful all knowing all loving God.

That is really what this is all about, Caleb. Evidence and reality are not important to you. What is important is your delusion. You WANT there to be a God, so you will believe in a close-minded fashion regardless of what other people give you as evidence contrary. You’re like a stubborn 6 year old who has just been told that Santa Claus doesn’t exist. “But I get presents from him every Christmas and it says from Santa! Life has taught me he HAS to exist! I WANT Santa Claus to exist! That is truth to me! I want Magic!” – This is the same tirade I read when I read your responses.

And look, Caleb, that’s fine. I’m down with you believing in whatever you want because that is your right as a human being. If you want to believe that you are so lowly and worthless that you want to rate as low as a slave to a terrorist God, that is your damn right! And I will fight for you to have that right. Just do us all a favor, and never confuse your ‘wants’ with ‘fact’. Because that pesky logic that you never want to hear is going to show you over and over again why your God is not a ‘fact’.

And I do believe He is all of those things. I accept that. Even if it doesn’t make sense to me. So be it. I CHOOSE of my own free will to obey Him.

Here are more pesky facts for you Caleb. If God is all knowing, he knew before he even created the world, before you were even conceived by your parents, exactly what decisions you would make. Your whole life is already known to him. Your reactions to this post, how you’re going to respond, my response to that, he already knows it all. He has known it all forever. YET, he created you, and you are living that exact life. Every decision you will ever make is already predetermined because it has been determined in *time* and *space* which God is already privy to. In other words, Free Will is an illusion. You really don’t have free will at all. Because nothing you do or say, even if to *you* it appears random, will already be known to God, and would have been known to God billions and billions of years ago. Savvy?

Also known to God are the billions of children who have died before ever reaching the age of 4, from diseases or hunger or neglect, things out of their control. He allows them to come into existence (or in your world of poor logic – he “created them”) to die. He allowed them to come into existence, suffer excruciatingly horrible short lives, and die alone, in a ditch, on a rock bed. This is not omnibenevolence. This is sadism. This is sickening.

Further, you believe God is all perfect, yet why couldn’t God create man who still had “free-will” (even though an illusion) and not known murder? After all, your “free-will” is already limited – you cannot do anything you wish because your body has limitations, your mind has limitations – so your free-will is not so free. So why couldn’t God create a human who would not sin and still have free will? After all, if you didn’t know what “murder” or “sin” was, even conceptually, you would never, ever know it wasn’t there. You just wouldn’t ever figure on it.

Lastly, if God loves us all so much, why did he allow for the events in the Garden to happen? Again, he knows everything – he knew that Adam was going to sin (or he isn’t all knowing). So why did he let man sin? You can say, as I’m sure you will, that he wanted man to choose, but that is silly! God would have allowed man to be immortally damned, not to mention the whole hell thing, when he could have simply created us differently where such an event couldn’t have happened. Why didn’t he just destroy Satan and be done with it? Why all the long waiting? Why, if he knew Satan would tempt man (who was not so perfect after all if they were tempted by a talking snake) just never create him to start with? Why create a being who will ultimately be your arch nemesis and will destroy your one true creation? Sounds sort of sticky to me.

Of course you think I’m foolish. I care not.

I don’t think you’re foolish, I think you’re brainwashed.

And of course I don’t like everything God has in plan,

You also do not like all of Gods laws. You ignore most of them and pick and choose which ones to follow, and then have the absurdity to suggest that “God’s word works!” Yeah, the parts of God’s word which relate best to human values (those pesky human values you despise and think are lowlier than Gods, by the way) are the exact morality you cling to and follow. It is God’s plan, which includes all of his laws, that you ignore! Why are you living for yourself! Sinner!

Do you think I like the idea of hell? Of course it scares me. But I choose to accept it. You choose to deny it. That’s fine.

That doesn’t change the unjust nature of it all, Caleb. You’re glossing over this fact by putting your fingers in your ears and singing “Lalalalalalala! I’m not listening! Santa Claus is real!”

See, free will. I don’t love God because I’m scared of hell… that’s the incorrect way to be. That’s not love. I love Him because I feel complete knowing Him. Personally, He brings to me peace, joy, grace, compassion, mercy, love…

Bull. You just said Hell scares you and you choose to accept going there or not. Hell most certainly is a deciding factor in it. You don’t “love” god any more than a 6 year old “loves” Santa Claus at the local mall on Christmas.

So perhaps I did come off as cocky, and I do apologize for that… but I’m confident in my choice, just as you are in yours.

Here is the thing, Caleb. I’m confident because I consider what is most reasonable and apply logic and observable data to it. You do this, I’m sure, in every other aspect of your life without realizing it. You go to the grocery store and check price tags to see what is cheaper. You read fine print on coupons to make sure you’re not being cheated or scammed. You probably change the channel when a crappy product is displayed on an infomercial at 3am. This is you recognizing things through reason. I apply that same reason to every aspect of my life – you still stop short at God. Your only reason for this so far is that you want to stop short of it. What if you replaced “god” with “Heroine”? That is another way I view your reaction to my posts so far. You’re like a heroine addict who cannot get off a drug because it makes them feel good. I can give you a million drug facts about why heroine is bad and can kill you, and you–as the drug addict–will plug your ears and sing…

Rook if you needed food, shelter, clothing, whatever, I would do what I could to accomodate. And I mean that. You don’t know me (I’m faaar from perfect), and I don’t know you. I try to have agape for anybody who comes my way, but by no means does that mean I should tolerate sinfulness… God forbid!

I can’t sin, I don’t accept your God. Further, I haven’t sinned – as I still abide by the so-called Noahide laws that your religion actually has in place (See the New Testament for more details). I live my life better than most of your Christian brethren. And, let me tell you, if you think I’m a sinner because I deny your Santa Claus and Heroine Addiction, perhaps you need to pluck the thorn out of your own eye…

If we took the time to get to know each other, it would be different… guaranteed. But I see you leading people to hell, and it makes me angry.

Hell doesn’t exist. Neither does your God. What makes me angry is when people believe the sort of degrading, self-depraving, antihumanist dogma that you feed them. You are a scar on the face of humanity because you do not believe enough in humanity to accept what you are and where you are in this world. You look up when you should be looking forward.

I am gladly a slave to Christ. Gladly a servant of God. You may mock me, think I’m crazy… but of course Jesus did say we would be hated for His namesake.

Jesus never uttered a sentence. Perhaps you mean the Gospel authors who created the words Jesus speaks in their compositions? In any event, that is only evidence to me that Christians have been deluded for as long as there have been Christians. It is no more evidence for your God’s existence or the factuality of your God’s son than the same utterances that came out of the mouths of Delphi priests about Zeus and Apollo.

And as for the compartmentalization point you mentioned above (I think that was the one you were alluding to me dodging)…
I’ve made it clear I don’t understand everything about God. I don’t claim to know how He works.

Actually, that is exactly what you have been claiming. You actually claim to assume to know that Gods moral compass is different than ours, when you can’t know that. It may be just the same for all you know.

But don’t lump me in with your “typical” Christian. I guarantee I’m a lot more deeper than the average backslidden American Christian who claims to be saved.

So far, not really.

I know the path to heaven is NARROW, just as the gate. And I do my best not to stray. He says if we love Him, we are to obey.

Be a good robot.

And that’s fine with me. He hasn’t done me wrong yet.

No, but you have no trouble with the millions of babies who die each year from disease. Stop being so selfish and think about the rest of humanity. Your place in time and space is not where time and space begin and end.

God is a spirit, and works in the spiritual.

This is a cop-out. Especially because, had you bothered to read the Bible, you would note that God interacts (supposedly) with the physical constantly. If God has a plan that effects you, it has to be a physical plan or it cannot effect you. “Spiritual” is a useless term, undefined and unspecified. Using it does not make you philosophically resilient.

The physical stuff, while He created it, doesn’t really interest Him.

Like those millions of babies who starve to death. Like those physical things?

You’ve only shown me that you are sick, twisted, perverted individual who cares only about his own salvation.

I’m sorry, but until you start thinking with your head instead of not thinking at all, I don’t know if I have the fortitude to continue this dialog with you. It sickens me too much.

Antipelagian…

I understand what you’re saying. I know that passage. I was referring to something like a physical humanoid manifestation of God for all those who can’t observe the natural universe and see the awe of God…

He’s evident to me anyway…

That’s fine Rook. I don’t have the fortitude to keep going with you either. Cuz yeah, you vex me just as much. To me you sound just as deluded as you claim I am.

in Christ,
Caleb Ian

Rook
I could experience something personally (and have previously), but such experiences are not testable.

To be clear, I am not here to discuss my experience…we’re talking about God and if belief in the Christian God is rational.

such experiences are not testable, nor are they observable to everyone in a way which would alleviate all doubt

On what basis do you assume proving God’s existence must be done empirically?

Caleb said
Using the same standards that skeptics apply to the Bible, I have concluded that Canadian singer Bryan Adams is a cannibal. There is no other plausible answer to the dilemma skeptics’ standards.

Ha ha! I’m going to steal that for the next time an atheist butchers the bible in order to “disprove” it…I hope you donzt mind.

So you’re likening a metaphorical song from Bryan Adams to a LAW which God commands you to follow, and was followed by Jews, for thousands of years? And you think you actually have an argument? Are you insane?

Let’s see…love song by Bryan Adams – not literal. Not commanded by God to follow.

God commanding you to follow his laws, which include stoning disobedient children or killing people who work on the sabbath – literal. THIS IS A LAW YOU ARE COMMANDED BY GOD TO FOLLOW.

You are so clueless, Caleb, it is not even funny. It’s sickening that you and I are a part of the same species.

…”ye are not under the law, but under grace.” Romans 6:14

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