Brian Sapient Punched Out
There are several rumors circulating that Brian Sapient, co-founder of the Rational Response Squad, has been brutally attacked at the American Humanist Association’s conference by Greydon Square, another member of the RRS. Apparently, the two had a disagreement over the way Sapient was handling Square’s CD sales, and Square beat Sapient. An ambulance had to be called.
There is no official word, as yet, from the RRS. Hambydammit, a core member, would neither confirm nor deny it to an interested party on the RRS forums, instead Hamby repeatedly told the inquirer to mind his own business.
Whatever my personal differences with Brian Sapient, he didn’t deserve to be attacked by Greydon Square. Square has legal methods to work out business disputes if he was unhappy with Sapient handling his affairs. Square acted like a spoiled little child. He needs to do some serious growing up.
Meanwhile, my prayers are with Sapient and Kelly this evening. Hopefully Brian has a speedy recovery. Pray also that the Lord has bigger plans for Brian Sapient than atheist activist.
UPDATE: This attack has been confirmed by Brian Sapient here in this thread at the RRS discussion board.
UPDATE: Fixed the broken link in this tread.
Posted on June 10, 2008, in Apologetics and tagged atheism, attack, bipolar, Brian Sapient, Greydon Square, Kelly O'Connor, Personal, Prayers. Bookmark the permalink. 19 Comments.
Thanks Cory, I’ll be fine, the story is somewhat accurate depending on where you get your info. I’ll prepare a little statement and embed it in this thread: http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/14187
Although I am banned from your site, myself and those I represent at our organization of Team FFI wish you a speedy recovery and a swift solution to the cause of this situation.
Violence is never an option, and this violent action against you is condemned.
I wish you a speedy recovery, but I think it’s disingenuous how you’re treating Greydon Square in that link you provided. You make it seem that he was mentally unstable when he beat you up. Then you provided a link where he allegedly was going to shoot someone. Did I not recall that you, Kelly, and LeftofLarry have defended Greydon Square during that incident? And since you say theism causes mental disorders, at least 3 people commenting in that link of yours said they were on medication for mental problems, too. So, does atheism cause mental disorders?
Brian, realize, atheists don’t like you. The Richard Dawkins Forum are having fun at your expense, suggesting that you got what you deserved. Why? Because you made the claim that Dawkins had an affair with someone, after he distanced himself from you. Have you no shame, sir?!
I think you’re hitting below the belt. And although you didn’t deserve what you got, you provoked Greydon Square.
Oh, and it seems that Kevin R. Brown wishes that Greydon Square was dead. He just wrote, “If it were my world, he’d be fertilizer by now, and there’d be no need to worry about it.” This is someone who complained and said earlier “[Greydon] psychotically attacked and attempted to beat Brian to death”?
Here’s Matt Shizzle talking about his own mental disorders (caused by atheism?): “People on psychotropic meds really need to keep taking them unless told otherwise by their doctor. I know if I stopped taking mine I’d probably attemp suicide again.”
Here’s Iruka: “I have a severe form of unipolar depression.”
Also, Brian, you said, “The RRS has no current plans of ever supporting Greydon again.” But then earlier in that same post you wanted to still sale Greydon’s CDs: “Further… if there is anyone who would like to purchase CDs in bulk orders of 10 or more at the rate of $5 per CD…” By selling those CDs, you’re inevitably supoprting him! Sure, you can use the money for youself, but then that proves you like using people for money! Are you sure you and not Greydon has the mental problem? Shameless!
I don’t appreciate the reference to mental disorders caused by atheism. I also suffer from severe depression and require medicine to function normally. Otherwise, I, like MattShizzle, would dwell into the realm of suicide. I want better for myself and for my family, so I take my medicine faithfully.
I would be remiss if I didn’t mention that the rates of mental illness, depression, and suicide are higher among atheists than theists (see God is NOT Imaginary for more details). However, the disorder is caused by a chemical imbalance, not one’s belief structure.
Why, then, are the rates of suicide and depression higher among atheists? Probably because we have more to live for–God, family, and the Great Commission from Christ Himself. Suicide is also murder to the Christian, and we would hate to die with something as severe as that on our hearts.
I don’t appreciate the reference to mental disorders caused by atheism. I also suffer from severe depression and require medicine to function normally.”[/i]
While I agree that “Are you sure you and not Greydon has the mental problem?” is akin of a childish insult, the man has a serious point. If you read Brian’s explanation he can’t play up mental illness enough. The whole RRS business model is based on using the social stigma of mental illness for social change, and that just makes a big problem worse, and creates another problem.
We don’t know if Greydon really has been diagnosed with any medical condition, we don’t know if it qualifies as a mental illness, or if he has a history of violence or if that condition was a factor in the incident. What we do know is Brian had a paypal page and kept it up for 2 months without shipping out CDs. We also know he was going to continue to sell Greydon CDs after being told not to, and we know Brian paid to mass produce them. Now without a contract Greydon still owns the copyright, and Brian by law isn’t entitled to anything whether he paid $1 or a million.
They had a private business arrangement, and it was a huge mistake to handle it publicly. I can only suspect that Greydon confronted Brian at the conference because he was dodging the calls. I don’t know that for a fact, but it stands to reason why Greydon was there asking to address the issue with a neutral arbitrator, but Sapient pressed the issue and had to handle it then and there, and refused to stop selling Greydon CDs as he claimed to be hundreds of dollars in the hole. It took a week for Sapient to understand the page the CDs were being sold on only had Greydon’s name and it looked like Greydon was committing mail and wire fraud. No reason to hit the guy, and Greydon should have sent out a registered letter rather than face him, but I can’t ignore Brian’s role in this.
Also, we don’t really know how serious Brian’s injuries really are. I’m sorry he got hit but they are playing this like he was beaten into 3 inches of his life… but he didn’t need blood and the police are treating this as a minor assault.
Until I hear otherwise, I’m going to attribute Greydon’s actions to a momentary lapse of reason. I’m going to attribute Brian’s actions as gross negligence, plus what I can only describe as attempts to assassinate Greydon’s character after the fact, as he did with Dawkins and Stopper. Greydon showed signs of learning from his mistake and will get his time in court. Brian doesn’t seem able to learn from his mistakes and IMHO should not be in charge of any business.
If this report is true concerning Greydon’s confrontation with Brian, I think that Brian had it coming…PERIOD!!
I remember on two ocasions, puting in orders for Greydon Square’s CDs, and had a rough time getting them delivered to me.
It was excuse after excuse after excuse, from the shippers ( Brian and Co.)They kept trying to convince Pay Pal that they shipped the CDs “a while ago.”
I had was to file a legal claim (complaint) with Pay Pal. Then, after a long drawn out fight back and forth, these fools(Brian and Co.) finally admitted that they did not ship me my 14 Cd albums…It was a real mess.
Then to make up for their fuck up, these idiots tried to pacify me by including a copy of some inferior white boy rapper trying to immitate Greydon Square. I immidiately threw it in the trash where it belong.
I think that Brian and Co are jealous of Greydon, and his success. And tried to inhibit or curtail sales of his albums.
“It was excuse after excuse after excuse, from the shippers ( Brian and Co.)They kept trying to convince Pay Pal that they shipped the CDs “a while ago.””
Brian is big on excuses. He’s still trying to blame getting hit on some sort of diagnosed condition that he claims Greydon talks about on MySpace, but it’s not there.
Near as I’ve been able to figure out, they have a house of 4 people. Rook’s girlfriend Lori was in charge of shipping the CDs, and it just wasn’t done for 2 months. Brian complained that it was too much work. Presuming he didn’t make back an investment of $1000 he had to have shipped out less than 70 CDs in 4 months, or less than 5/week. Sure a tad tedious, but we’re talking well under an hour of work presuming local post office pickup.
If this was a post office issue, he could have provided proof he shipped it out in the form of a receipt that he paid for postage. Given he was operating through paypal, this would be trivial.
“I think that Brian and Co are jealous of Greydon, and his success. And tried to inhibit or curtail sales of his albums.”
Nah. I think he’s just lazy. He put off shipping the CDs and it became too much work. He would rather blog and spend time in stickam than mail things.
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